The Side Effects of Discipline

Summary

This episode explores the multifaceted nature of discipline, its impact on mental health, and how it can be cultivated to improve life quality. Lindsay and Mike share personal stories, practical tips, and insights on building discipline, managing setbacks, and understanding its role in personal growth.

Keywords

discipline, mental health, self-improvement, habits, resilience, personal growth, mental illness, motivation, consistency, self-esteem

Key Topics

• The role of discipline in mental health and personal growth
• Strategies for building and maintaining discipline
• The impact of rigidity and flexibility in discipline

Takeaways

• Discipline can raise your baseline, making your worst days better.
• Starting small with discipline builds self-esteem and habit.
• Flexibility in discipline is crucial to adapt to challenges.

Guest Name

Sound Bites

• "Discipline raises the floor, not just the ceiling."
• "Discipline can help you pivot through challenges."
• "Rigidity can hinder your ability to adapt."

Chapters

00:00
Introduction and Personal Updates

04:48
The Reality of War and Its Impact

12:07
The Upsides of Discipline

14:29
Discipline and Self-Esteem

17:02
Challenges of Rigidity in Discipline

18:18
The Importance of Flexibility

20:55
Final Thoughts on Discipline

Resources

• The Power of Habit by Charles Duhigg
• Inversion Table

Thanks for listening to the Ginger and Chocolate Podcast. Check out our website at gingerandchocolate.com to get in touch with us. Follow us on YouTube, Facebook and Instagram @ginger_and_chocolate_podcast; and please subscribe to the show and select automatic downloads on your podcast app. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:00

Good morning, everybody. Welcome to the Ginger and Chocolate Podcast. I'm Lindsay and I'm here with my co-host Mike.

SPEAKER_00 0:07

Hey. What's going on? I'll tell you, the last few days have been excruciating. I wrenched my back. I pulled it out. So I've been limping around.

SPEAKER_03 0:18

That back pain is the freaking worst. How did you do that?

SPEAKER_00 0:23

Man, it was nothing cool. It's never anything cool.

SPEAKER_03 0:26

No, never.

SPEAKER_00 0:27

Never stopping a terrorist attack, and not not like saving people from getting hit by a bus. It's uh I was coaching baseball and a kid threw a ball in the dirt and I bent down two paths to get it, and boom, got me.

SPEAKER_04 0:39

Well, at least okay. Coaching kids in baseball is better than not that I'm judging, but you did fuck yourself up playing kickball. So in the past. That's true. So at least coaching. Oh, I'm sorry. I hate the back pain. It and it takes a while for you know recovery and all of that good stuff.

SPEAKER_00 0:58

Oh man, I'm I'm lucky though. I got uh good friends who lent me what are they called? An aversion table, chair.

SPEAKER_01 1:07

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:08

How is it? Like f it flips you upside down, it stretches your back out. It's amazing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:15

I've always wanted to go on one of those.

SPEAKER_00 1:16

Yeah, it's now I have the perfect opportunity and I can tell it's working. So Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:23

That's something to um to keep in the back of my you know my head because I've always wanted to try one, but you know, when I throw my back out, I never think about that's the time to use one. So awesome. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:35

What else is going on besides uh you know, I start a new job, so I'm nine to five in it now. And uh got a nice little commute where I get to see the marsh and it's it's good. It's good. It's uh meeting my new coworkers and you know, driving out to a different part of the bay.

SPEAKER_03 1:52

What's the uh new job?

SPEAKER_00 1:54

Well, I'm working for uh a certain hospital and I am treating people who generally have bipolar. Okay. Yeah, so I'm working with them individually and and in group settings.

SPEAKER_03 2:06

So nice, nice.

SPEAKER_00 2:08

It's not I'll say this, it's not completely different than what I've done in the past, but it's different enough to where, you know, I gotta learn a lot. So I'm enjoying it so far. One weekend, and I'm I'm making it.

SPEAKER_04 2:20

All right. Well, congratulations. I'm happy to hear that because I I believe you're a good therapist, and I was bummed to hear that you were not doing that, you know, anymore. And so um, this sounds like a really great opportunity. And you and I have experience just personally with bipolar, with our good friend of our show going, you know, bipolar one and having some issues there. So and then I have bipolar two, which I will say is a pretty mild case. I don't ever get manic or like completely separate from reality or get delusional, thank God. Right. It's more like it fluctuates from anxiety to feeling completely numb inside, you know, where I don't connect with anything. So I have meds for that and it worked, they work beautifully. But I think it's an important thing to work with people that have this because I didn't know for the longest time that that's what I was dealing with because it's not so pronounced as as other people.

SPEAKER_00 3:21

Right.

SPEAKER_04 3:23

When someone finally diagnosed me, I was like, well, that explains why I'm like riddled with anxiety, and then we'll just be like, I'm dead inside, I don't care anymore. You know, made a huge difference in my life, and I've had therapy around it and all of that good stuff. So congrats.

SPEAKER_00 3:36

Thank you. Yeah, it's it's it's it's nicer to recognize or be able to label what you're going through for a couple of reasons, I think. You know, one, it's not so mysterious, and two, you know, you're not the only person who's who's dealt with it, so it's not as scary, I think. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 3:53

Yeah, yeah, I agree. When they first got the when I first got diagnosed, I was like, oh my God, no way, because I only knew about really pronounced cases of bipolar one. So I was like, Yeah. What the fuck? I'm not going off, you know, on a completely delusional tangent. But then they explained to me kind of the the, you know, my doctor says it's more like a spectrum than just you've got this or you got this. And so when she explained that, I was like, okay, then that made sense. And it's true, you know, you don't feel alone and you are able to have treatment. And then I can label it like if I feel um a lot of anxiety, I can be like, okay, that's what this is, as opposed to just being like, what is happening to me?

SPEAKER_00 4:33

I've experienced that with my struggle with post-traumatic stress and the ability to say, oh, this is this is what's happening, and then it stops you from ramping up more and can kind of cut that cycle short. Yeah, it's very effective.

SPEAKER_04 4:48

Speaking of PTSD and and sort of how at least one of the reasons you came about having it being in Fallujah, Josh is he's really he watches and reads a lot of like he reads nonfiction. Um, and he likes to watch shows like about history, and so he ends up watching things about war and stuff. And uh yesterday he walked into my office and was like, Your podcast co-host was he in Fallujah? And I said, Yep. And he said, So he actually was like fighting over there. I was like, Yeah, no one was chilling in Fallujah, you know. Pool was closed, and he just, you know, he had seen a a piece on it, um, and was like we've talked about before, none of us have any idea what it's like to be over there. But he was like, I wouldn't say impress is a word, he was just like overwhelmed that somebody, like human beings, you know, you you're more real to him because he knows we do our podcast together, and he was just like, oh my God.

SPEAKER_00 5:48

Makes more real, doesn't it? If you know somebody.

SPEAKER_04 5:51

Yeah, he he was just kind of a little shocked and about what went on there and how individuals had to deal with so many, so many different challenges there. So anyway, you've made it real for him now. You did that for me, and you've made it real for him now. And he's like, I'm gonna, and then the next thing I know, he's watching something completely different. I think he was like, I'm gonna stop watching this now. I'm freaked out.

SPEAKER_00 6:13

So you can go down a rabbit hole. It gets it gets pretty nitty-gritty.

SPEAKER_04 6:18

Yeah. Well, I thank you for sharing, you know, your story about that because I think it's important for people to understand the real, especially, you know, right now we're in a war, and I think I connect more with the reality of what's h happening and the human cost of what's happening than I did before I met you.

SPEAKER_00 6:36

It's hard. Yeah, I appreciate that. And it's it's it's hard to do that unless you know somebody, I think.

SPEAKER_04 6:41

Yeah, because it's a theory.

SPEAKER_03 6:44

And uh it can get a little, you know, downplayed, I think, in the media.

SPEAKER_00 6:49

Um and well, you know, you watch something on the news, it's just recycled clips usually. Um and then it's also just numbers. And numbers aren't people, so it's easy to be like, oh, this number of troops is going that way.

SPEAKER_04 7:06

Right. Right, right. And I definitely experienced that. I I just, you know, I have an uncle who was in the Navy, but he was a commander and he was on a nuclear he commanded a nuclear submarine, which is great, but during the Cold War, he would just be missing for months if there was a war, because he did some type of weapons development science that uh was a top secret deal. So if there was ever any kind of threat where they felt like he might be targeted, they would just hide him. But he wasn't really like he wasn't boots on the ground. You know, he was this they had sent him to MIT and he was doing this, so it was very different. It's more like administrative. So there was no real connection with like what it's really like for people to be out there. I see.

SPEAKER_02 7:47

So yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 7:48

He was a big old fat dude. He doesn't listen to this podcast, so I can say it. You looked at him and you're like, You're in the military? Like how, but it's because he was using his brain, not his body, you know.

SPEAKER_00 8:01

I see.

SPEAKER_04 8:02

And um several times when he would when he would go in for his physical, they'd be like, bro, if you gain any weight, you're not even gonna walk down the hallways of the submarine because it's very narrow, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 8:12

Tight fit.

SPEAKER_04 8:13

It's very tight fit. Interesting, dude. Don't not totally clear what he did, but it was something pretty um, pretty amazing because after he retired from the military, he worked at the Pentagon, continuing to do his sort of weapons development work, whatever that is.

SPEAKER_00 8:32

Yeah, yeah, impressive secret stuff.

SPEAKER_04 8:34

Mm-hmm. One time he said to me, you know, I work on these satellites. They're we they're weather satellite. Like he tries to back like he's not doing what he's doing. We're like the whole family knows we don't know the details of what he's doing, but we know what you do. So that but then he would say stupid shit like, I'm working on these weather satellites, and we can pinpoint like a cell phone from space. And I'm like, oh, so you can blow up a person from space based on their cell phone, but we're talking like we're pretending it's weather. Sweet.

SPEAKER_00 9:03

It's weather.

SPEAKER_04 9:05

Okay, great. You're scary, dude. Well, but that's not what we're talking about today. I will share a little bit about what's going on with me before we get into the the topic. As I say, most recordings, I'm tired. My sleep was bullshit, and um I have rekindled my love of reading romance novels, which is so cheesy, I know. But nice.

SPEAKER_00 9:27

Are we talking about like romanticy?

SPEAKER_04 9:29

Like the Yeah, we're talking about like I have a favorite author, Nora Roberts, and it's like it's always like a damsel in distress type of situation, and then there's a hero, and they have like an antagonistic relationship, and then it works out and they're in love, and then they have very steamy, you know, hot sex, and yeah. And then they always get married and live happily ever after. Like it's a formula, basically.

SPEAKER_02 9:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:55

But I've taken I used to devour those, you know, and then I stopped for like decades and I started again because I could have them on my Kindle and read them like when I wake up in the middle of the night, and it's not really it's not like doom scrolling or reading the news or reading anything upsetting. It's just this like innocuous stuff. The problem is I'm reading a really good one right now. So in the middle of the night when I woke up and couldn't sleep, I started reading it and I read it for like an hour and a half.

SPEAKER_00 10:20

Hard to put down.

SPEAKER_04 10:21

Yes. Um, so I'm super tired today because of a romance novel. But um I yesterday got an offer for a job that I wanted for a long time, and I have a new job.

SPEAKER_00 10:36

Congratulations.

SPEAKER_04 10:37

Thank you. I'm super excited. I had some listeners know I had switched jobs like only about a year and a half ago, and I made a wrong move. It wasn't what they said it was gonna be. They just couldn't execute on what they said they were gonna do. Because I think it was a new new role for them, and so they had all these plans, but then when I got there, it was like, you know, and there was a whole lot of nothing for me to do, which drives me nuts.

SPEAKER_02 11:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:01

I think. I think some people would be happy doing very little and getting paid. But for me, it's boring. Um makes a day so long. So I was looking around a little bit and there was a company that I had applied for a role for like months and months ago, probably six, eight months ago, and someone beat me out for the role, and I was like so bummed because I really like this company and I wanted to work for them. And then their recruiter reached out to me a few months ago and said, Oh, we have another role. We want to talk to you. So that was really great. I was so excited, but again, I was trying to um hold off on being too jazzed because there's competition for these roles, and you know, it's a managing director role. And so I'm gonna manage some people and I'm gonna um do there's a merger happening, so I'm gonna do a little work on that. And you know, it's uh it's exciting, it's exciting stuff. And I don't start till the end of April, so I have to wrap up at my current job and then I'm gonna take a little time off. Nice. Thank you. Thank you. I'm super stoked. So I feel like these people have a defined role, so they're not gonna be like, oh, we can't execute, we don't know what to do with you now. Yeah, definitely. And today we're gonna talk about discipline and the side effects of discipline. And um, I don't know about you, there's things I'm disciplined about and things that I am not. So I'm disciplined about my job and going to work and doing what I need to do. I have a lot of discipline there. When it comes to working out, the discipline I had when I was training for Iron Man seems to have left my body. I'm not sure what happened there. How are you on discipline? It's just also sedative. What I find when I'm trying to force discipline on myself in all of all areas of my life, I feel this sense of guilt when I'm doing what so I'll feel guilty I'm not executing on my workout plan when I'm at work, even though that day at work is gonna be a long day. I'm not gonna be able to execute on my workout plan because of that. And then if I'm working out, I feel guilty about not working because I know there's things for me to do and I should be doing those things. And I'm not really a type A personality. I've had people tell me in their minds I'm a type A personality, but I know some real if you're in the endurance world, you know some real type A personalities and they are disciplined. Yes, exactly. I don't know. Is that discipline or is that a personality trait? Okay. So the outcome that you're looking for informs what you're doing on a daily basis and you are able to do the those things even regardless of how you feel about doing those individual things. Mm-hmm. Yeah, and I did a little research and some of the some of the upsides are um one of them, I think what we're kind of talking about here is an identity shift. And so you stop negotiating with yourself, you know, over time, the internal debate about whether to do the thing just sort of quiets because you're like, this is what I'm this is what I'm doing right now.

SPEAKER_02 13:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:57

And you become that person who's able to execute. And um, so that there's a little bit of a shift there in your identity. You're like, I'm the person who can execute on the plan that I put in place to reach an outcome. Right. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Which I think that's I think that's important. I mean, I don't know that people need to shift their identity, but I think that for me anyway, becoming someone who can be relied on to execute on certain things has been a self-esteem building exercise as well. You know, so 100%. They talk about in sobriety the concept of suspending what you want right now so that you can have what you want in the future. And that future thing is always a bigger, you know, it's a bigger thing than what you want right this second. So for example, you know, fixing my relationship with my children was my overall what I wanted, right? But when I was drinking, it was like, I'll do that. But today I'm gonna get drunk. You know what I mean? Because the pain of not having that good relationship with my kids was great. And so I couldn't I didn't have that ability to not not do the thing right in front of me. Like right now I want this, I'm gonna do this right now. And um you never reach that overall bigger goal by well, it's not never, it depends on the goal, but a lot of times you don't reach it if you're just doing the thing right now that you want. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 15:24

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 15:24

And some of these things are kind of, you know, mild. It's like the red vine example. Like what I'd like to do is not have sugar because I know it's not great for me. What I'm gonna do in this moment is grab these red vines and eat a few, but they're not gonna kill me. So that's okay. Although the longer I'm sober, the narrower the path gets, if you know what I mean. Uh-huh. It's like I quit drinking and doing any drugs. And then it was like I smoked cigarettes like a maniac. Red C.

SPEAKER_00 15:55

Oh, you really like cigars.

SPEAKER_04 15:57

It was like, I'm not drinking or doing drugs. You know, my sponsor would say, like, as long as you put your head on your pillow sober, like the other stuff will come and it doesn't matter. Smoke them if you got them. And smoke, drink lots of coffee, have that sugar. That sugar, if you're newly trying to get sober, sugar is a big aid in addressing like cravings right in the moment if you're trying to get sober from alcohol. I used to think, oh, I don't like sugar. I don't eat sugar. I never ate dessert or anything while I was drinking, and it's because I was pounding sugar with because I was a wine drinker, and there's so much sugar in wine. So it turns out I actually was ingesting a lot of sugar and have a little. So I'd have like um, you know, some like a chocolate or something when a craving would come up, and then but then I kind of let go of that, and then I was about five years sober, and I was like, these cigarettes are not great because I want to work out and uh I want to do endurance sports, and smoking is hard to do and do endurance sports.

SPEAKER_00 16:58

Yeah, like yeah, you know, to try you'd have to have yeah three fanning to work and so is to want to like yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 17:07

You know that we've talked a lot with runners and different athletes, and they seem to be you know consistent in terms of like if some a lot of the runners that we have interviewed, I follow on on social media, and you'll see the very consistent running. And sometimes there's a large volume and sometimes there's not. But the the fact is they're getting up and doing it every day or so. Yeah. Yeah. Um I'm currently doing the once a week and it's painful, you know. Um it's not working really, to be honest. Not building any, it's not really building anything. So I'm gonna try discipline on that. So that's a that's okay. I've built that into the right, right. Yeah, and if you don't do it perfectly, it doesn't mean quit. That's the whole thing with discipline is just not quitting because there was a fail at some point.

SPEAKER_00 17:55

And somebody else and and go right, right.

SPEAKER_04 18:02

Absolutely. That makes a lot of sense. I did not know about the pro social aspect of it that I didn't know it was called that, but I know like for you carrying the flag during triathlons was something external to yourself, and that really helped you move forward with training. Um one of the other things I I got during my research was that it it raises the floor for you, not just the ceiling. So like your worst days get better. So discipline doesn't make you perform at your peak every day. You're not gonna perform at your peak, but it makes your baseline higher, which I think is a neat concept. That's a great thing about each other.

SPEAKER_03 18:41

Yeah, you know, we're right, etc.

SPEAKER_04 18:44

My worst day, my worst day now is better than like my best day when I was in the middle of my disease, you know, because the best I could do when I was really, really in my mental illness was barely function as a human being, you know. That was my best day. The idea that discipline is going to raise the bar, I just really, really like that idea. I love love finding ways to overall make my life a little bit a little incrementally better. So finding these ways to to do that, this is would be a way to do this. Pick, like you said, pick something to be disciplined about. It could be something small. If you make your bet every day for that example, you start feeling like that sense of accomplishment right off in the morning. Yes. And then you're gonna pursue that sense of accomplishment. And that might lead to other activities that bring you there as well. One thing I wanted to add is Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you can be grateful for the almost mundane things you can be grateful for. And um, I do think sometimes discipline can seem uh mundane, and we're gonna talk about in a little bit about the the downsides of or the challenges of being disciplined. Um for me, sometimes that brain sort of, you know, my little squirrel brain doesn't want to live in what I perceive to be the mundane, but working through that and just like the the point earlier about doing it when you aren't necessarily into doing it will help get over that hump. And then I do feel gratitude always when I kind of just work through what I was gonna do instead of trying to switch it up, you know, to just be to just be interested in something or well, I think a good one, I'm I don't want to go through all of these points, but I think a good one to talk about because we've had so many guests on the show who've talked about this, is that it raises your discomfort tolerance. And so the more you do hard things voluntarily, the less involuntary hard things that come up shake you. And yeah, I think um endurance sports. It is, it is. Endurance sports can teach you that lesson by being disciplined with training and then you know what comes up during events.

SPEAKER_00 20:55

We got this, we can shift a little bit.

SPEAKER_04 20:56

Right, that ability to pivot without falling apart. Some of the guests that we've had that I admire the most are guests that have this really high level of discomfort tolerance, and usually it's around working out trail running, ultra distance running. You've seen a lot of people that we've talked with who have the ability to keep going, like it's guaranteed during a hundred mile race that you're gonna be in discomfort. No one's getting out of there without opportunity. Exactly. Lots of opportunities for discomfort, and no one's getting out of there without, you know. No one runs a hundred miles and just goes, felt great the whole time. Yeah. Just ran for 24 hours and the whole time it felt wonderful. So I admire the mental aspects of doing that. Obviously, the physical aspects are are impressive and stuff, but but for me, I admire these mental aspects of their ability to say, okay, I I am uncomfortable and sort of acknowledge it and like also, so what? I'm gonna keep doing the thing I'm doing. Yeah, that's kind of a cool, a cool thing. Some of the harder side effects, and this one I thought was pretty interesting. I have experiences. Being on the other side of it, which is impatience with others. So you can hold yourself to a standard. And then it becomes difficult to not to it becomes difficult when you can see others are not doing that.

SPEAKER_02 22:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:13

You know, like I'm gonna work out every day at 6 a.m. And then my workout partner just sleeps in and doesn't show up. And it's like, what are you doing? I mean, they may have reasons for it, but work, for example, if you're very disciplined about your work and you see someone else who is a slacker and there's always at least one at every job. I mean, you're not gonna have a job. Um and uh yeah, if if if you're rigid about your discipline in any area, it definitely can color the way you view other people. So that's something to really watch out for, you know. And I don't know, you've had some good suggestions over time, and I wonder what you think about this. Like, what would be some some tricks for overcoming that initial thought of like, well, they're not doing the thing, they're X, Y, Z. Right. Yeah, because discipline. Right, right. You wouldn't need it. You would just do the thing and it would be a good thing.

SPEAKER_00 23:13

You just do it as students and right. Right.

SPEAKER_04 23:17

And I think we need we need challenges in our life, I think, to really grow as human beings. So at the end of the day, we don't really want everything to be easy, we don't really want everyone to be able to do all of this stuff. We people need to be varied and um you know different in their perspective for us to to learn and grow from them. So having that, like you said, having that disdain is not going to help you grow either. So say you're self-focused um person. Okay, great. But l looking at how you could help someone else um take steps towards being disciplined is actually gonna help you grow as a human being. Because you're gonna learn something about sit there and have at it. Yeah, it's not yeah, exactly. Have at it somewhere else. And um it's not a long-term solution to happiness and joy and freedom to spend all your time hating everybody. Yeah, me too. I really I enjoy, especially around things that I enjoy, like let's take, for example, triathlon. When I was super into doing triathlon, I would encourage others who weren't doing maybe anything, you know, to come out and try it. And they would say, Well, I'm not you. And I would say, anyone could do it if you're interested. And um, I got a reputation for encouraging people who hadn't previously thought about it. So someone would I have a friend who would introduce me to other people and she would say, And you better watch out because you're gonna c catch this disease called triathlon, which was fun. It was fun to see them like go through all the changes and be excited and go to the first race with them and watch them do their first race. I was so much, that's so much fun. I love it. So how about rigidity as a downside of discipline? I think that that's yeah, yeah, right. And be a jerk. Yes, exactly. That makes a lot of sense and um be able to pivot a little bit. I think you talked about it already, but the rigidity can get in the way of you being able to change directions when a challenge comes up. So, you know, I've seen people totally, totally. I've seen people pitch a fit during a race because they were off the, you know, their pace or whatever, or just and they would quit. I've seen people just quit. Yes. And um it's like, well, this is a hobby, first of all. So why are you freaking out? This you're not a pro. And and that's that rigidity of like they were disciplined, the outcome was a certain pace. The fact that they couldn't make that pace made them unable to complete the the challenge.

SPEAKER_00 25:40

And uh, right.

SPEAKER_04 25:41

That doesn't, it doesn't look like fun. And like you're agent. Yeah, right, right. I think sometimes the rigidity makes people unlikable. And, you know, it could be, I would think, a little bit lonely because people start moving away from someone who's too rigid. Um, in general, I think it's sort of I know I do, you know, if someone's like incredibly rigid, my desire to hang with them diminishes pretty quickly. Right. Right. It is ineffective and it also is a major turnoff. I was thinking about work in this, in this regard. And one of the things I've learned in sobriety is to the goal, you know, I can be pretty disciplined with work, like I mentioned, but the goal is to be a worker among workers, not to be the, you know, the king um or the queen in the office. And when I come across people at work who are rigid like that, who are disciplined, and in some ways I'll, you know, I will initially really admire their ability to just be like disciplined and organized. I mean, I'm an accountant, so being disciplined and organized is a thing, you know, in my industry. But when it turns into rigidity, it's like, I don't want to do a project with this person because they suck, you know, they're just up your butt all day about everything. And and they have a schedule that may not take into account other people's schedules or other people's workloads. Yeah. It's very nice. My overall goal in life is to help others, but also enjoy life. Like we're here for a limited amount of time and we're on this weird planet that's just rolling through space. It's a total aside, but I've been looking at a lot of like videos about the universe, and I'm like, wow, none of this shit even matters. But yeah, it's you know, to help people and to enjoy life um trying to temper discipline and not not let it spill over into all of the things that we talked about is um something that I think is a worthy, a worthy goal. We have talked about this for 50 minutes, basically. And um what are your last kind of words on discipline? Right, right. You lose sight of your values because you're looking at the trees rather than I mean the forest. Yeah. Or you might Yeah, I agree with everything you just said. And what I would say about it is the sort of from the perspective of identity and raising the floor. I've as I mentioned, doing esteemable acts has helped me build safe as uh self-esteem that I did not possess. And so, you know, starting small with uh something that you can you can actually achieve discipline-wise, making your bed, running for five minutes a day, you know, doing these things that you can do consistently do build that habit, that discipline, but also will build the self-esteem. And I think that that's an important thing. I can get out of pocket and want to do all the stuff at once, and then that's a fail, right? And then I just feel like a failure, you know, and it's not really, really gonna work. I'll just say really quickly, the day that I quit drinking for, you know, the day I quit drinking um 22 years ago, I wanted to quit drinking, quit doing drugs. I wasn't doing drugs at that point, but I wanted to, you know, not do drugs, quit drinking, quit smoking cigarettes, and quit eating meat all today. And of course I wasn't able to execute on all that. And that's why my sponsor was like, how about if we just put our head on the pillow sober today? Let's let's break that down. And that was an esteemable act, like that was something I could do. That little bit was a big bit, but you know, that that consistent bit did build that self-esteem I was looking for. So that's what I would say about this. And uh yeah, listeners, and we thank you for coming on this little journey with us.

SPEAKER_00 29:18

Oh, I got one last thing with you, Lindsay.

SPEAKER_04 29:20

Sure, sure. I think yeah, yeah, right. What's your secret? Good point. Modeling works for sure. You don't need to reinvent the wheel. Someone else is doing it. Man, okay. Think it's time. All right, listeners, thank you for taking this journey with us. And we are doing an every other week schedule now. And so we will see you in two weeks. Bye.