Reframing Disappointment: Turning Setbacks into Growth

Summary

In this episode, Mike and Lindsay explore the nature of disappointment, especially in the context of athletic pursuits and personal goals. They share personal stories, discuss reframing setbacks, and offer practical advice on handling disappointment healthily.

Keywords

disappointment, resilience, athletic goals, reframing failure, mental health, community, triathlon, Ironman, personal growth

Key Topics

• The nature of disappointment and how to acknowledge it
• Reframing setbacks as opportunities for growth
• The importance of community and support systems
• Practical strategies for managing disappointment
• Personal stories of disappointment and resilience
• 
  

Sound Bites

• "Don't let bitterness take over your life."
• "Life is too beautiful to let bitterness drag you down."
• "Community is a big part of my happiness and resilience."

Thanks for listening to the Ginger and Chocolate Podcast. Check out our website at gingerandchocolate.com to get in touch with us. Follow us on YouTube, Facebook and Instagram @ginger_and_chocolate_podcast; and please subscribe to the show and select automatic downloads on your podcast app. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hey everybody, welcome back to the Ginger and Chocolate Podcast. I'm your co-host, Mike, along with the fabulous Lindsay. Lindsay, what's up?

SPEAKER_00 0:07

Let's see. I'm up. I'm awake. So that's something. Yes, it's early in the morning, but I'm feeling pretty good. I got an actual seven hours of sleep, which is an improvement for me. I'm having some sleep improvements. I can talk about that in a little bit, how I'm doing that, but I'm so, so relieved to be feeling good this morning. How are you doing?

SPEAKER_01 0:28

I'm doing well. I'm doing really well. I had some great sleep. Welcome back to Middle-aged podcast. We've been like I had some great sleep. I've been doing a lot of uh work around, putting part of a driveway in, just doing a lot of uh shoveling, gravel, compacting stuff, fun things, very physical, and and it's uh helped me sleep well at night, which is great. And uh past couple weeks I've been watching the kids solo as my wife is on a vacation with her dad and her brother.

SPEAKER_00 0:58

Oh, cool. Where'd they go?

SPEAKER_01 1:00

They're out in Vietnam.

SPEAKER_00 1:02

Really?

unknown 1:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03

Wow, that's awesome. Lucky Sarah.

SPEAKER_01 1:06

Yeah, it looks like a lot of fun. So yeah, I've been here making lunches, I've been dialing in, you know, like all the stuff that my wife usually does. So getting kids to practices multiple places at once. So it's been fun. I've I've actually really enjoyed it. So cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:24

I think um temporary single parent life is probably fun.

SPEAKER_01 1:27

Yeah, yeah. All the time it it would be a lot.

SPEAKER_00 1:31

So all right. Well, what about working out? Have you done much of that lately?

SPEAKER_01 1:38

Yeah, I've been consistently running a few times a week. So I'm officially, officially, officially training up for the Marine Corps Marathon. And awesome. Yeah, so that's been great. Swim-wise, I just got back in the pool. That's something we can talk about a little bit. But one of our last guests, Jen Peterson, who runs Thrive PRP. I I got injected. I got a PRP shot, so that's platelet-rich plasma shot, and into my shoulder, and my shoulder was hurting a ton. Now my shoulder is it's like a miracle.

SPEAKER_02 2:11

Really?

SPEAKER_01 2:12

I can swim, I can lift, I can do all the things. That being said, I didn't get that shot until a couple weeks ago. Um Oceanside is out for me. I my shoulder just hurt, but I'm hoping, I'm hoping, hoping, hoping, hoping I can train up for the um the inaugural Iron Man 70.3 Northern California in beautiful Reading.

SPEAKER_00 2:33

Wow. Okay. I didn't know I haven't been paying attention because I haven't been doing triathlon. Did not know there was a new race. So is it a lake? Must be like a lake or a river.

SPEAKER_01 2:42

Sacramento River Swim.

SPEAKER_00 2:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 2:45

I don't know. I have no idea. I haven't even looked into it that much, but I know it's in Reading. I got um a good friend that I'm gonna carry the flag for if I'm able to do this race.

SPEAKER_02 2:55

Nice.

SPEAKER_01 2:56

And their family lives right nearby and just outside of Reading.

SPEAKER_00 3:00

So And did you say what time of year it is?

SPEAKER_01 3:02

August, when it'll be hot as hell up there.

SPEAKER_00 3:06

Yes, that's gonna be like the fiery bowels of hell.

SPEAKER_01 3:09

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:10

So you're gonna need to lather on that sunblock with your ginger ass for sure.

SPEAKER_01 3:16

Exactly. Well, you think I might get sunburned?

SPEAKER_00 3:18

That's a possibility. You're just a little bit pale.

SPEAKER_03 3:22

Slightly. Slight possibility. My hat.

SPEAKER_00 3:26

For those of you who don't know what Mike and I look like, you can always go to our YouTube and see there's definitely a variation between our shades. Yes. Hence the name ginger and chocolate.

SPEAKER_01 3:37

Kind of fits pretty well. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 3:41

Um okay, so you've got that coming up in August, and you've got the Marine Corps Marathon in the fall, like October or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 3:48

Yeah, I think end of October.

SPEAKER_00 3:50

Okay, cool. Have you done any have you gotten on the trails at all for running?

SPEAKER_01 3:55

Not too much. I did last week, but I mean, trail, I mean, not like out in the woods trails. So I haven't I've done mostly urban, urban running.

SPEAKER_00 4:07

On the road and on the treadmill. Well, I'm old, so I've been running trails, which isn't that doesn't always go together though. Just the road hurts my my my old joints. It's like jarring. And being on the there's sort of like a you know, the road is typically around here, the road is flatter. So that's that's uh easier in a way. And the trails are very steep around here, so the up and down can be a little challenging. But something about running on dirt makes it so much easier on my joints that it's preferable to me.

SPEAKER_03 4:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:43

Besides the community that I'm running with now on Sundays, I they've been mentioned on this podcast, and I interviewed Raul, who is the one who got me into this Parisma Trail Runners group, and they run on Sundays and Parisma Park, like Park, I guess it's called open space preserve. And they are all, I mean, they're all badasses. They're doing like 50 mile races, 100 mile races. They're running on they do training runs on Saturday. So they'll run like 20, 30 miles on Saturday, and then they show up and do this like 10 mile loop that is a lot of elevation. And um, I've been running like an out and back with them. So I meet them because they hang out before and after, which is totally fun. So I meet them and then I do like a six or an eight mile out and back. But two days ago on Sunday, I did the whole 10 mile loop.

SPEAKER_01 5:28

And that's a lot because that's on trail. That's this is not a 10 miles on a treadmill or on a flat road. This is 10 miles of trail with elevation.

SPEAKER_00 5:36

Yeah, yeah, and it's very steep. So there's some power hiking for me because you know, when that when it's so, so steep, it's very hard to for me to run up it.

SPEAKER_01 5:45

That's part of the game though.

SPEAKER_00 5:47

Yeah, it totally is. And I've signed up for the Mount Diablo half marathon. I've done that one.

SPEAKER_03 5:55

Oh, have you?

SPEAKER_00 5:58

A lot of elevation, like 2,300 feet or something like that in a half. Um, I'll be doing some power hiking there too, but I'm really excited to be to be doing it. My challenge for this year is to try to do a thing called the brazen um ultra half series. We'll see if it happens um between October and September. We do um so brazen racing is like a an event, you know, um company and they put on trail races.

SPEAKER_01 6:24

The best.

SPEAKER_00 6:25

Yes, they're really good. Yes, they're very good. I love their races. And um so between October and September, you do five of their any five of their half marathons, and then in September, everyone runs the specific one in September. I didn't start till this upcoming one in April, which means I have to do basically a marathon a month. Not a marathon, let me start over with that. A half marathon. No way am I doing a marathon a month. Not yet. A half marathon a month between April and September. And yeah, I think it's doable. I mean, if I'm doing 10 miles every Sunday, I can do 13 once a month. I think that's probably doable. So that's my goal. And I'm happy to have like a small goal, not something like big, like an Iron Man, because I feel like this is more doable.

SPEAKER_01 7:15

Yeah. Well, you also got community involved, and that's cool.

SPEAKER_00 7:19

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:20

Your trail running group that you are a part of.

SPEAKER_00 7:23

Yeah, yeah, I love it. I love it. And they hang out after at the end and they hang out for quite a while and they have food and they chit-chat and stuff. So even if I'm like behind everybody, like there's still people there hanging when I'm when I'm done, which is pretty nice.

SPEAKER_01 7:38

Perisma trail running group?

SPEAKER_00 7:39

Yeah, it starts at the northern parking lot of Parisma, which is on Skyline near 90, not too far from 92. 92 and Skyline, it's probably a couple miles um south from 92, but it's called the Northern Parking Lot. So you can look that up. And it's at uh they take off running at 7 a.m. on Sundays. So probably get there at like quarter to seven or something like that, and um chit-chat a little bit, and then they take a group photo every every week, and then they everyone starts running. And some people are there hiking because they're getting over injuries, things like that. Yeah, it's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_01 8:13

Yeah, shout out to Prisma Trail Running Group because uh we we can tell you're listening. So thank you.

SPEAKER_00 8:19

Yes, they've been listening. I've been getting a lot of good feedback.

SPEAKER_01 8:24

Yeah, love it.

SPEAKER_00 8:24

Welcome we're getting the Prisma Trailrunner bump on our our numbers, so that's pretty fun. But today we're here to talk about a topic that is not quite as like upbeat, but it's um an important topic. We're gonna talk about disappointment today. And I don't think it's disappointment. Yeah. It happens to everybody. I mean, you know, in a lot of different ways. And what is something, Mike, that you, you know, have felt disappointed in in recent time, like the last few years?

SPEAKER_01 8:57

Last few years, I think the most disappointing thing for me would probably be just the way the Gold Star Initiative went, not being involved with that anymore. It was such a positive thing, and for it to to end was disappointing for sure.

SPEAKER_00 9:13

Can you explain a little bit about what you know, for listeners who didn't know this story from before, kind of what it was and what and what happened?

SPEAKER_01 9:20

Yeah, so what it was, I was involved with the Iron Man Foundation for a few years, and their CEO not CEO, their uh executive director, yeah, Sarah Hartman was wonderful, and she helped us start the Gold Star initiative, which was we had a veteran carry a flag for a fallen service member, somebody who died while serving the country, uh at an Iron Man event, usually a half Iron Man, and would have the family presence and present the flag to the family at the finish line. And it was a way of getting the Gold Star community, which is those who have a fallen service member in their family, the veteran community and the race community all together. And honoring somebody in a non-political way and just in and including them, the family, including the family in the event. So it was great. Yeah, we had a lot of success, a lot of people were happy, a lot of good memories with that. So yeah, uh it went on for a little while, and while it happened, it was it was pretty wonderful.

SPEAKER_00 10:28

One of the things that struck me about you guys doing this was just that I would think, and I don't know, because this hasn't been my I haven't experienced this, but being worried about the person who's gone being for forgotten.

SPEAKER_03 10:39

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 10:40

Um, you know, this is a way to honor them and and remember them. Yeah. Um so I appreciate that. And a funny thing that happened is that Mike and I met at Iron Man Santa Rosa. And I've told people this story before, but I'll say in case you haven't heard it. I was on the run course and there was a guy who was clearly way ahead of me. I was like dragging butt around this run course, and this guy was carrying a like a full-size flag. And my initial thought, um, being tired and grouchy was look at this fucking douchebag. Like it's not enough to be running, you know what I mean? Like we're out here suffering, and he's hopping along with a flag. And um, at that time, my podcast was called Age Groupies, and I did it solo. And after the race, I did a race report. Apparently, Mike, I don't know, listened to it, found out about it, and messaged me about his story and coming on the podcast. And he did, and it went really well. So well that I was like, this guy I would like to do the show with this guy. I just asked him to do it, and we've been doing it, you know, since 2019 now.

SPEAKER_01 11:44

Alliance was formed.

SPEAKER_00 11:45

Yeah. So it was so all positive. And I've learned so much about military in general and the veterans community. A lot that changed, you know, my perspective, I guess. And I really appreciate that about you and what you were doing with the Gold Star Initiative. So, you know, what what happened?

SPEAKER_01 12:04

You know, the thank you for that, by the way. That means a lot. And I I've been happy to be partnered with you in this podcast and be friends since. So it's been great. And then as far as what happened with the Gold Star Initiative, you know, there's there's always changeover within organizations. And the the when the executive director of the Iron Man Foundation changed, the the incoming person didn't quite have the same vision of of how it should go. Um there was logistics that involved bringing either myself or a veteran or and then my my partner in this, Lisa, who's a gold star mother, to this event to make sure the family and the athlete were taken care of emotionally. Because it's a big experience, especially for the family, I think the gold star family. So having having a gold star mother like Lisa there was was a non uh non-negotiable for us. And just the Iron Man Foundation felt differently and felt that it was costing them too much money to do, and that it wasn't raising money. So we had a disagreement about well, the Iron Man Foundation raises money for charitable causes, and we thought this was a cause worthy of that, and their perspective was that it should be making money. And we didn't like the idea of of kind of hamstringing veterans or gold star families to make them money. So they this and w I you know, we we made that known. Just, hey, this is this is this is the give back. This isn't the let's make money off people and you know they feel differently and ultimately they're in charge, and so they decided to to let us go and part ways with us and call it something different. I don't know if it's still going on, but it's it's much different now. So but it was disappointing.

SPEAKER_00 13:55

They were kind of continuing it with other participants who wanted to participate, but in a way that didn't include you guys and was also generating income. Is that basically Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:07

Yeah. So they wanted the people to raise a lot of money for this and they wanted they didn't feel it was necessary like we did to have someone like myself or Lisa there to make sure that the family was both protected and taken care of. That they could understand the context of everything, just to to we we didn't like the idea of just setting it up and say, all right, well, meet there and good luck. You know, we wanted to have a liaison, be a liaison liaison for the family into that.

SPEAKER_00 14:40

So that's fair enough. You guys are, you know, being a gold star mom and a veteran, you guys are more familiar with the trauma that can be involved with losing somebody. And um, you know, it seems like the foundation didn't quite understand that. And I'm familiar with the foundation. Raising of money is a pretty high bar to get to a race there.

SPEAKER_03 15:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:05

At least when I was looking and it was like probably around ten grand or something, which is high to it's good that they're raising money to give to another charity, but it is a high number. And I would think that that would be something that would really reduce the c the you know.

SPEAKER_01 15:21

Yeah, the socio economic status of a lot of veterans is not I mean, there's some high earners, but there's probably more of modest means, and we're trying to find people who could use this as a platform to spring off of and find the connection again. We're looking for people for people to serve who felt inclined athletically but could use this as motivation to really spring forward. So yeah, it was disappointing to to be let go from that and have it continue in a different way. Um I was also disappointed um in the same in the same breath that I was supposed to run Kona again with them and carry the flag. And um that changed. They said, Well, you can do Kona, but you can't carry the flag anymore. I'm like, Well, that was the reason I raised thirty-five thousand dollars was to carry the flag for a gold star family, which happened to be Lisa, my partner in this, John or her son, who was killed in Iraq. And one of Yeah, so that was the whole point of doing Kona. I've I've done it. I I mean, yeah, I'd like to do it again, but it's a as you can imagine, it's a pretty tough thing to train up for.

SPEAKER_00 16:38

Yeah, yeah. And I know, I know just from talking to you, this came, you know, late enough that you were training already for it.

SPEAKER_01 16:45

So I was trained up and trained up. And yeah. And that was one where people would raise money, and that made sense because it's an expensive thing to get to Kona. But that was the exception out of the Gold Star Initiative program. So yeah, so raising the money, putting the training in, getting the family ready for this, and then being told, Oh, by the way, you're allowed to come. Well, thank you. But you can't carry the flag or do the gold star initiative or any of that.

SPEAKER_03 17:28

Yeah. Yeah, that's icky. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:36

Iron Man as a as a business, you know, it's become this huge it started out so like organically, you know. Yeah. Yeah. And um it has such a big reputation, and honestly, they'd put the a good event on, you know.

SPEAKER_01 17:50

Yeah, the production value of an Iron Man is top notch.

SPEAKER_00 17:53

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So if someone's thinking about it who's listening, I don't want to dissuade you from from participating. But it is for sure a money-making endeavor. And I think as it progresses and more people enter just the sport of triathlon and the I feel like the bar to get to race in Iron Man has lowered in the sense that regular people have realized, oh, I don't need to be this like super athlete to do it. I think there was a time where people were like, Well, that's insane.

SPEAKER_03 18:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:26

You know, and now it's like your average like mom or dad who wants to race, as long as you have the will to do the training, can do it. And so the ability for Iron Man to make a lot of money as uh as a business has definitely increased. And um I think now there's more of a there's a you know, there is the Iron Man Foundation, but there's also more of a corporate perspective in terms of the race, the events. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:56

Yeah, I mean, anytime an organization is answers to a board or shareholders, you know, then things should gonna be r run a little differently. And I understand that. And it's it's one thing to understand it, and then it's one thing to feel it, to to have it personally affect you. Definitely not trying to make this a sob story for me, but it was a source of extreme disappointment that that definitely derailed you know my personal and athletic life for quite a while. And I'm I'd say it still does. It doesn't feel great still. And yeah, it's something I haven't talked about up until right now with talking about with you, at least in a public setting, right?

SPEAKER_00 19:43

Right, right. I know from the in you know, talking to you when it initially happened, the disappointment was great as it still is, but I wanted to talk to you a little bit about you know, how you've been able to move on, because as you mentioned, you were registered for Iron Man Oceanside. And I know initially you were like, fuck Iron Man, I'm done with Iron Man as an organization, which totally makes sense. And I, when I heard your story, was like, well, I'll jump on that bandwagon, fuck Iron Man, because it just pissed me off, you know, hearing about it. But but you're, you know, you are registered, even though you're not gonna um attend, you are registered for Iron Man Oceanside. So how did you get from fuck this to okay, I I want to participate, I'm willing to go to a race and train up for it?

SPEAKER_01 20:34

I think the positivity of the people who race outshines the negative aspects of the business and that that side of it. You know, like um I'm just thinking like anyone from my friends, Yogi tri athletes based out of San Diego, down Carlsbad there, who are just such a positive force in the world to people like Mike Riley and Eric Gilson and announcing races and the other athletes that we've met along the way who carry inspiration and inspiring stories. And just the the lifestyle that benefits me and so many other people in terms of training up for an event, that lifestyle of training is is such a an important part of my life that I won't say it's like I overlook it, but it makes it worth just recognizing that yes, this is a business and it's becomes right, like bottom line. How do we make more dollars for shareholders? So kind of balancing that out.

SPEAKER_00 21:32

Yeah, yeah. That's good. Um the idea of reframing disappointment and looking at it a di at it at it from a different perspective is definitely something it's a tool I've used to overcome disappointment. I've had disappointment too in terms of just internally in terms of race performance and setting a standard and an ideal for myself. I always set the bar higher than maybe is appropriate for where I am at that time. Not always. Sometimes the bar was like an Iron Man or half Iron Man. And I, you know, I did the race, but I might have wanted to perform in a certain way and I didn't. And that can feel very disappointing at the time that I'm racing.

SPEAKER_03 22:20

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 22:21

And afterwards. And, you know, the ego gets involved and um makes that disappointment it's sort of like pouring mirac miracle on the disappointment when the ego gets involved. I feel like.

SPEAKER_01 22:35

Well, yeah. I mean, especially if like we both have friends who are more athletic, right? Who are I don't want to say it's all talent, it comes naturally to them, but we we both have people in our lives and in our circles who are more athletically gifted and go faster than us.

unknown 22:53

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 22:53

And that's always going to be the case with them, just because they're naturally fast and they are very, very consistent in a way. I'm not that consistent, but even if I was that consistent, I would not be their pace. And that's okay. And that's the part that I need to when I'm disappointed with athletic performance, I do need to reframe it and look at it from a different perspective. If I look at it from the perspective of like, I'm a woman in her mid-50s who consistently works out and goes and runs 10 miles on the trails on the Sunday and will go do an event and have a good time and has built up a community of people that are very loving and inclusive through the sport of triathlon and through trail running, then the performance itself is not really the key metric that I'm searching for. It's more like the journey and the the camaraderie. And I am getting that, you know.

SPEAKER_01 23:51

And so it's like the context then. You you you set up the context a little differently.

SPEAKER_03 23:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:58

By including all the other parts of it that that you're both fortunate and to be part of and and enjoy and you can see the benefit of.

SPEAKER_00 24:10

I have um as I do sometimes, I looked up disappointment on AI. See what AI had to say.

SPEAKER_01 24:18

Yes. What's our friend Gemini say?

SPEAKER_00 24:20

Uh uh this time I'm using Claude, which is another AI, which I like quite a bit, and recommend trying it. And the first thing it says, which is something that you did with Gold Star Initiative, is it says acknowledge it first. Don't rush past the feeling. So, like naming it like I'm genuinely disappointed.

SPEAKER_03 24:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:41

Instead of trying to, like you had said, just sort of ignore it and push it to the side. So that's that's something that you did and I've done. And then this one's good. Separating the event from the s the story. So what happened is one thing, and then what you tell yourself about what happened is another thing.

SPEAKER_01 25:02

Yeah, can I ask you about that? Because uh it might just list it, or if it has details on that, because it seems to me that yeah, when something happens, all of us as humans fill in the blanks with what we think is going on, or people's motivations, or when in reality we we don't know.

SPEAKER_00 25:22

Right, right. The uh example Claude used is I didn't get the job. That's the fact. The story can be I never get the job. You know? I I never get the job, I'll never succeed.

SPEAKER_03 25:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:44

So the suggestion there is to like analyze it a little bit, like what are the actual facts? The fact is Iron Man is a business. The fact is they're gonna make decisions based on the bottom line.

SPEAKER_03 25:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:59

And but that doesn't mean that Gold Star is not that the idea was not good or that that you weren't an integral part of that, and that you don't have the value or whatever, however you, you know, whatever you feel.

SPEAKER_03 26:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:15

And the thing you said about the community and the people who race being more important than what happened with the Gold Star Initiative. I feel like that's reframing it and that's part of the story that you're telling.

SPEAKER_01 26:27

Yeah, yeah. Like, you know, I I probably will will choose other charitable organizations to represent other than the Iron Man Foundation, you know, like the Gold Star Initiative when that gets off the ground itself. Um or but point well taken, you know, just like racing and Iron Man itself, you know, when things don't go right, you gotta adapt and and keep moving.

SPEAKER_03 26:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:52

I guess you don't have to, you can quit, but that's not really in our blood.

SPEAKER_00 26:56

No. Thank God.

SPEAKER_01 26:58

Yeah. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:01

You can make your life pretty small, right? If every time you're disappointed, you just give up.

SPEAKER_01 27:05

Fuck it. I'm done. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:08

That black and white thinking does never really serve us.

SPEAKER_01 27:11

Black and white thinking. That'd be another good podcast name for us, by the way.

SPEAKER_00 27:19

That would be another good podcast. We'll have to think about doing a second uh show about black and white thinking. It's true. We do have different perspectives sometimes from our experience being, you know, African American and uh ginger.

SPEAKER_03 27:36

Ginger American.

SPEAKER_00 27:37

Ginger American. You know, remember last year there was a little bit of time where uh TikTok was doing a thing of like gingers are black. That was sort of their I remember seeing that. Like gingers are the black people of white people because they get astracized and oppressed as yeah. Which I love that, because there were a lot of gingers, like, ooh, do we get invited to the cookout now? And and stuff like that. Okay, so one of the other suggestions is give yourself time limit to sit with it. And I think we've talked about that a little bit. Like you can feel the disappointment, acknowledge a disappointment. You can sit in it for a while, but then there's should be like a limit on that, instead of like I'm gonna forever, you know, five years down the road, Mike is still wallowing in.

SPEAKER_01 28:25

Yeah, Mike's still sitting in his shitty diaper. Um turns into bitterness.

SPEAKER_00 28:32

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 28:33

Yeah, and that's that's not good for anyone involved.

SPEAKER_00 28:36

No, it contained all of your activities. Like if you're just bitter about this situation, how hard are you gonna be able to train? How consistent are you gonna be able to be with with training if you feel like, well, there's no fucking point.

SPEAKER_01 28:48

Yeah, exactly. I mean, what's and then then how does it affect the rest of your life? How does it affect the life of those around you? Right?

SPEAKER_00 28:57

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 28:58

It's a huge ripple effect.

SPEAKER_00 28:59

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Being around bitter people does suck the life out of me a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 29:04

It's it's awful. It's awful. It's uh yeah, it it's yeah. Let's just leave it at that for now. And I wanna touch on something you mentioned before. The opposite side of that of oh, I I see it two different ways that aren't helpful. One is clinging on to it, that we talked about, which becomes a feeling and seed of bitterness and in one's soul. And the other part is like pushing it away and not even acknowledging it like can be a problem. Like like everything's fine, and that's denial when you're really feeling it. And then also I think leads to resentment and and leads to delusion too.

SPEAKER_00 29:46

Yeah, yeah. Yes. That everything's fine, it's all good. I'm I'm I'm okay without doing any analysis, without doing that part of acknowledging that it is disappointing, can definitely be harmful, just as equally harmful as, you know, being bitter, I th I think. Because it always is gonna seep out, you know, the truth is gonna show up somehow, somehow, even if you're pushing it down and trying to bury it.

SPEAKER_01 30:12

Yeah, exactly. It's the term that I've used a lot in the psychological world, which is cognitive dissonance.

SPEAKER_03 30:20

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 30:20

Where you have one thought or even your intuition saying, like, wait, it's like it this is what's really happening, but there's a an active part of your forebrain going, like, no, it's not, no, everything's fine. You know, nothing's on fire. We're okay.

SPEAKER_00 30:34

I did that when I was drinking quite a bit. Like, yeah, you know, yeah, drank into a blackout last night, woke up someplace I don't know with someone I don't know, don't know how I got there. It's a work day. I should have been at work an hour ago, but I don't know where I am, so it's gonna take me a minute to get home. But everything is fine. It's all good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:54

I'm totally in control of this situation.

SPEAKER_00 30:58

When I say it out loud now, it's like, bitch, that you don't, you were absolutely crazy. But at the time, the only tool I had was cognitive dissonance.

SPEAKER_01 31:11

That is the most like empathetic way I've ever heard somebody say bitch.

SPEAKER_00 31:17

Bitch.

SPEAKER_03 31:19

That is how I talk to myself sometimes. You know, whatever works, I guess. Exactly. I love that.

SPEAKER_00 31:32

So the only other things that they have here is uh, you know, basically let it figure out what you can control versus what you can't control. So we've talked about that. You can't control uh Iron Man, I can't control my um athletic abilities, you know, in terms of my natural abilities. And but I can control how I do uh show up for training. I can control that. And um, I can control whether or not I'm gonna enjoy the journey or not, or if it's I'm gonna put all my eggs in the basket of performance.

SPEAKER_01 32:04

Yeah. Um, right. I mean that's what essentially I think Olympians and top performers have to do if that's that's their their gig, right? That's a tough road.

SPEAKER_00 32:16

Yeah. I mean, if you're a pro, that's what you need to do because that's what you're getting paid. Like last year, I interviewed a guy, uh a trail runner, a distance runner named Lauren. So you can go back and check that out. And he talked about racing western states. He'd done it before, and he wanted to do it in sub 24 hours. Like he just, that was his thing for that race. That was his goal for that race. And pretty quickly into the race, he realized that wasn't gonna happen for him. It was just not the day. Wasn't just wasn't gonna happen. And he said he was grouchy and he was being a big old baby, and he was like, Why am I even out here? I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna be able to do the 24 hours. This is just stupid. And he would go into each aid station and be like, I'm done. I don't want to do this. It's just, you know, just bitching and moaning about it. And people would look at him and realize he's not done because he's like injured or incapable of going on. He's done because he's being a brat, because he wanted to do this one goal and he's like missing out on the race, like in terms of the enjoyment of it, the challenge of it. And people was just saying to him, like, you're not done, keep going. Like they were just kicking him out of the aid station.

SPEAKER_01 33:30

Oh, inside and play, don't go back.

SPEAKER_00 33:32

And he did that, they did that until he just was like and popped back into reality and became present in the race.

SPEAKER_01 33:41

Right.

SPEAKER_00 33:42

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:42

Being able to come back into the joy of it.

SPEAKER_00 33:45

Yeah, yeah. And he did do that. It's not I can't remember exactly when, but it was something like mile 80. Like he did a long time. He ran a long time being pissed off.

SPEAKER_01 33:55

That's a long time to be mad. Yeah. I can I can stay mad for maybe like 10 miles, but uh I that's that's pushing it. I gotta really put my mind to it if I want to stay mad that long.

SPEAKER_00 34:06

Yeah, yeah. Well, that goes to his like level of of training and his talent was that he had the energy to stay mad all that time. I would just be trying to survive at that point and not really worry about but that's that sort of like what you can and can't control. He he could not control the fact that his body was not going to his body was like, okay, we can finish. We just ain't finishing in 24 hours. Like, yeah. And putting all of your eggs in that basket of it's gonna be just this one thing. It's just gonna be whether or not I meet my goal on this race is a way to really miss out on the the jer the the event and miss out on like all the positive aspects of what you're doing.

SPEAKER_03 34:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:51

And I think, if I remember correctly, he kind of let that go. And I believe he ran it under 24 hours at a different different race once he got over himself and just was kind of like, I don't know what's gonna happen. So that's a good example. That's a great idea.

SPEAKER_03 35:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:06

And then the last thing AI says is to like pivot basically. And this is something I feel like you did pretty well with this Gold Star initiative. Looking at other ways that you can carry the flag, other events you can carry the flag.

SPEAKER_01 35:26

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 35:27

So what do you have anything like planned about that yet? Or I know that you've been thinking about that, what you can do, but Yeah, things are in the works.

SPEAKER_01 35:36

It's it's I will say this, it's a tough thing to get a nonprofit off the ground time-wise financially, and and you know, getting together a group of people who will be part of that. So part of the recipes there, but um I think the yeah, the the other thing I I definitely want to say on this is that it was um we could do a whole nother episode on this, is just identity. The disappointment of, oh, this is no longer my identity as Mike the Triathlon Iron Man flag guy, it's over.

SPEAKER_03 36:12

Right.

SPEAKER_01 36:13

Um that was the tough thing to pivot from. And then I I what I really want to say is that I don't want to use this platform to create an army of haters that wants to throw rocks at the Iron Man caravan when they they run by. Not at all. You know, I I want people to just feel how they feel, take their experience as their guide and and and go with that. Don't uh I'm not looking to create a rebellion or or bad mouth in organization.

SPEAKER_03 36:44

Right.

SPEAKER_01 36:45

I just wanted to share my personal experience with it and the feelings of disappointment that I have that are my own.

SPEAKER_00 36:51

Yeah, yeah. And and you're right, there's so many upsides to racing triathlon and to participating in Iron Man distance races that it outweighs any of the stuff that happened with you at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_01 37:06

Yeah, exactly. And the the like I want those to continue, of course. I want people to continue to have life-changing experience, epiphanies, realize that they can break through that barrier that they mentally set for themselves before, and et cetera.

SPEAKER_02 37:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:22

So Yeah, and I'm and I'm bummed I won't be able to do that, participate in that at Oceanside this year.

SPEAKER_00 37:30

I met a totally and completely off topic, but the listeners know we like to veer off topic sometimes. I know a woman who was racing oceanside and she said in the water, well, at some point something big swam below me. I could feel it, and I was like, No, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 37:53

I had that experience, I think, at Santa Cruz, and a seal popped its head out. I'm like, oh, hello. Yeah, yeah. Also, go away because I know it likes to eat you.

SPEAKER_00 38:02

Well, yeah, and that was my experience at Santa Cruz too, which is why I don't do ocean swims anymore. Cause I straight panicked after this sea lion was swimming next to me and it was huge. And um, they're not afraid of much, the sea lions.

SPEAKER_03 38:16

Oh, they're not.

SPEAKER_00 38:17

But when I saw it kind of made like this and it swam off, because I kept looking at it as I was swimming, I was like, why did it just take off so fast? Definitely a great white.

SPEAKER_01 38:29

Definitely gonna eat me.

SPEAKER_00 38:30

Definitely gonna eat me. I'm out here freezing cold. I'm not, I'm not efficient in the water. I definitely look like the, you know, the the sick one in the herd that'd be easy to take down. And uh that was the moment when I started saying to myself, this whole triathlon thing is some white people shit. Black people don't do this, and there's a reason why, because we're not stupid, we don't get in the water. But fortunately, the lovely thing about living in California is there are a lot of races that are in lakes and rivers and like this one in Reading will be great. It won't be in the ocean. So that's something I could consider at some point as well.

SPEAKER_01 39:09

Yeah, it's it's exactly. It'll be a non-shark, non-shark event.

SPEAKER_00 39:15

Yes. Trail running has its own things that I could scare myself about in terms of like, is there gonna be a mountain lion? Is there gonna be but I'm not really afraid of the wildlife on the trail like I am in the water. I am afraid on the trail sometimes of creepy men, because as a female runner, you do see that out there. And it's sort of like, is this guy like I'll be look, I'll pass somebody on the trail and then I'll like run for a few steps and I'll then I'll look behind and make sure they're still going the other direction.

SPEAKER_01 39:47

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:48

Which is a weird thing, but I used to listen to a lot of true crime podcasts. I don't really anymore because it's made me a terrified person. And there was a whole podcast dedicated to murders that happened in national parks, like the only things they did, and there was enough to do full like seasons of a podcast on that.

SPEAKER_01 40:07

Goodness.

SPEAKER_00 40:08

I was like, I'm gonna need to stop listening if I'm ever gonna go on a trail again.

SPEAKER_01 40:13

Yeah, yeah. I mean, acknowledge that it happens, take preparations, but if you're bathing yourself in the the waters of what could go wrong at all times, then yes, that will creep up.

SPEAKER_00 40:24

Yeah, yeah. Just another way to be out of to be not present in the experience.

SPEAKER_01 40:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:33

And then I keep running and I get too tired to give a fuck about who's out there.

SPEAKER_01 40:37

Yeah, it's like fucking. Take me if you need to.

SPEAKER_00 40:40

I don't care. I'm tired. Well, anything else you want to say on disappointment or anything at all?

SPEAKER_01 40:49

Yeah, I think that it's it's okay to feel disappointed. And if your disappointment feel involves other people, just realize that the one thing that you shared, Lindsay, with AI was that tell yourself, you know, what happened and separate that from the story because there's a lot we can insert into people's motivations or intentions that might not be there that we just don't know.

SPEAKER_00 41:14

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 41:14

Or we can feel disappointed even it's if it's in organizations or other people, without having to create a story and inventing everything that we don't know about it. So feel the feeling, don't push it away, don't do a spiritual bypass and just say everything's fine, and don't cling on to it. Just there's a time. Touch it, let go.

SPEAKER_00 41:33

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And uh don't sell yourself short by becoming, you know, letting your yourself become bitter.

SPEAKER_01 41:42

Yeah, li life is too beautiful. There's too many great things happening to let yourself get dragged down by bitterness or give up. So many cool things are happening, and that's that's ultimately what what I want to be part of. And I find that in the race community.

SPEAKER_00 42:03

Exactly. Race community is pretty freaking great.

SPEAKER_01 42:07

Yes, exactly. Especially all my shaggy trail runners out there. I love it to the counterculture. I love it to the Yeah, me too.

SPEAKER_00 42:15

Just, you know, yeah, all of it, all of it. I feel so fortunate and to have found this this group of people. And, you know, life, life is good for many reasons, but I do feel like my community is a big part of it, my my athletic community. And um, yeah, on that note, I think we will end the show for this week. And um, thanks for listening, everybody. As always, please subscribe and set your podcast player to automatically download. Some players, like Pocket Cast, for example, you can listen without downloading, but we need the downloads to know that you're listening. And so if you can do that, it would really support the show and share the episode or the podcast in general with a friend.

SPEAKER_01 43:02

Yeah. This might be an odd one to recommend at first, but people who maybe if you have a friend going through something disappointed, we we can help reframe it.

SPEAKER_00 43:12

So Yeah, that sounds good. Okay, everybody, we'll see you next. One quick announcement. We are actually did change the schedule up a little bit. So we are doing the shows every other week. Um, you've probably noticed by now, but um thought I would share that with you. So we will see you in two weeks.

SPEAKER_03 43:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:29

Bye.